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Passes Per Side/XStroke Counter (no replies)

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Lately, I have been using a decremental counting method when apexing a knife. This is the Billy T method for sharpening a straight razor, were you start at say 30 or 40 passes per side and reduce the passes per side by ten until you reach ten then you do smaller increments until you hit 1, then you do the starting number (30 or 40) X-strokes. Sometimes it is better not to do a bunch of passes on one side only, as this raises the possibility of creating a burr, so using alternating passes will help reduce that. Then that leaves the problem of how many alternating passes to do that are the same as the number system that was being used before. I wrote a small C++ program and here is a chart of the results:

Starting # of Passes Total Passes Passes Per Side/Alternating Pass Count Total: (Original Number List)
10 42 21 (10+10+5+5+3+3+2+2+1+1+10+10)
20 102 51 (20+20+10+10+5+5+3+3+2+2+1+1+20+20)
30 182 91 (30+30+ "" +30+30)
40 282 141 (40+40+ "" +40+40)
50 402 201 (50+50+ "" +50+50)

Spyderco DoubleStuff2 (Coarse CBN/Fine Ceramic, radius edge) (5 replies)

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The new Spyderco DoubleStuff2 looks amazing:

[catalog.spyderco.com]

CBN on one side, Fine Ceramic on the other with a one radius edge per side!

Sharpening Tips, Troubleshooting and Q & A. (4 replies)

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I have been thinking about this for a while, somewhere that we could talk about specific issues we are having with sharpening without having to create a new topic and then have to search and try and find the information later for reference. So if you have any good tips, need troubleshooting, or have questions or answers, this is the place for it.

edit:
PS:
I was also thinking that the Forum could put together a treatise on sharpening. We could work on the outline first, then fill it in with submissions and the edit it to something that is a good source of information for the beginner and expert alike.

Thinning primary grind with a king 1k stone (2 replies)

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Hi,
Ive been watching Murry Carters videos on YouTube. He seems to use a king 1k as his workhorse when thinning the primary grind or what he calls the secondary grind. Is the king 1k coarse enough to make the primary edge thinner? Would it not be to slow?

Question about edge finish (2 replies)

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Good day to you, this is my first post on this forum, I hope it is okay to make this thread.
When I sharpen my knife I often tend to take them to very high polish and high edge sharpness. Also people bring me knives to sharpen pretty often. If it is quality steel, which happens very rarely, I apply high grit finish and spend some time doing that. But most often, people bring me cheap knives to sharpen, mostly low carbon content low hardness stainless steel. And here lies my question. What is the overall optimal finish for decent push cutting and slicing ability, but also optimal edge retention for these particular types of knives:
-stainless steel kitchen knife (low carbon, low hardness)
-stainless steel outdoor/general utility knife (low carbon, low hardness)
-stainless steel hunting knife (low carbon, low hardness)
as these are the types I encounter the most.
From what i have tried, fine finish on these types of knives does not last very long. For my own use, i like results from Dmt Coarse or Fine, but i think it is not worth wearing these plates on such knives, especially if i do it for free mostly. From what i noticed, people not used to using sharp knives tend to cut by slicing anyway, so I assume coarser finish would be more optimal. I have tried Dmt coarse finish on my pocket knives, and i really like it - fast and easy, very good performance. I want to use benchstone and not a ceramic/ diamond rod, as i am more consistent with stones and have to focus too much when using rod. I always start with 150/320 grit combination SiC stone, cuts fast but is a little bit friable, especially 320 grit side, i can easily make edge to shave off this stone, but do not like it for apexing very much, DMT coarse gave better aggression. However, what i liked was when i stropped the edge a little after this or coarse diamond stone (about 20 pps, low angle, absolutely clend and burr free edge when i go to strop), and it increased push cutting ability while maintaining great deal of aggression.
I do all my shaping on SiC stones, but i want something for apexing the edge exclusively, edge shaping and polishing can be done with variety of other stones I have.
I am seriously considering buying Norton Fine India stone for this purpose. I have read that it gives almost perfect finish and edge retention for that types of knives. I am not a hunter, I do not cook much, so i do not know how those types of steel behave in such situations. When i cook, i am used that my knives fall through that food, but people are not. I sharpen this type of knives far more than I use them ( i mean this particular type of knives in that particular situations, sure I use and test my blades). That is why I am asking about this, I do not have enough experience using these steels im manner these people use them. Will the Norton India give similiar overall sharpness to DMT Coarse? Is it good choice for tasks these knives are meant for? Or would you recommend some different grit for finishing? Or particular abrasive? I am aminig for something not particularly expensive as it will be used on these cheap knives mostly for free.
Thank you
Greetings from Slovakia
(by the way, in summer I plan to review some abrasives and upload it here with photos from microscope also).

Two sharpening stones no grit progression set (1 reply)

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The premise:

A. In the context of 3 step sharpening progression;

B. The fact that everyone should have Norton Crystolon and India combo (coarse and fine) sharpening stones for stock removal and edge repair among just loving coarser finish and higher edge retention on the common steels;

C. The obvious benefits of plateau sharpening;

D. Having (or wanting to have) limited/just a few sharpening stones...


do you find useful to have a "Two sharpening stones no grit progression set"

1. Let's say the KING - KING 1000 resin bond aluminum oxide around 13 microns grit water stone / whetstone which releases abrasive rapidly and forms slurry which from what I have learn in the forum - makes forming a burr very hard / almost impossible and preps the edge for micro beveling;

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2.1 Hard natural stone - Soft / Hard Arkansas (for the purposes of the topic - between 10 and 20 microns)

2.2 Hard man made / synthetic stone:

2.2.1 - Spyderco medium - sintered aluminium oxide around 15 microns - very hard, no abrasive is released, no slurry is formed;

2.2.2 Missarka 500 - fused white aluminium oxide - around 13 microns - very hard, no abrasive is released unless you apply very high force, no slurry is formed;

other similar in performance stones which I do not have in my inventory (yet :D )

because you might sacrifice a little bit of initial sharpness for little more edge retention / [www.cliffstamp.com]

or


just skip a few microns and go with Spyderco Fine / Ultra Fine ; DMT EEF or Black / Translucent Arkansas stones and have very high initial sharpness?

Probably a silly uneducated question but it will be interesting to hear commentary from more experienced folks.

Have a nice day.

Getting A HHT 3/4/5 both Directions (no replies)

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Every since reading this thread:

[www.cliffstamp.com]

and especially this post:

[www.cliffstamp.com]

I have been trying to get a blade to cut the hair as soon as it touches it. I have been able to do this for the last few months, and I have been trying to figure out how I was able to get a HHT 3/4/5 when I wasn't able to before, since the method and stones I have used before really didn't change. Believe it or not, I think that there are a few small details that can get a tree topping edge to what you see in the video, as they are essentially the same edge. I have also noticed that the lower the edge angle (ie closer to a zero grind) the closer you are to this level of sharpness, with even the same edge finish. As soon as I was able to get a HHT 3/4/5 repeatedly, I put the edge on all my knives, and some already had it just from my previous sharpenings. I have also found you can get an edge this sharp without stropping, and also with Fine White Ceramic, although with stropping. What I have found works the best is after you have a sharpened knife that is either close to tree topping or is tree topping, if you strop the knife and the take it back to your finishing stone, using very light pressure and alternating forward leading x-strokes, you should be able to get a HHT 3/4/5. If you can already get a HHT 3/4/5, I would be interested in you method, and if you haven't been able to get a HHT 3/4/5 and want to learn how to, just post here and let's see if we can troubleshoot and walk you through getting the edge if you want it. It really isn't necessary for regular knife use, but I like the edge for EDC work.

Two Coarse Stones Used (2 replies)


Are Arkansas Still Still Good For Sharpening? (1 reply)

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This question was rasied on BladeForums recently:

[www.bladeforums.com]

Cliff has shown that indeed the stones do cut if conditioned properly:
[www.youtube.com]

I myself have found that I can sharpen steeles with high carbides(440C/D2/S30V/Elmax) with using Arkansas stones, and I get the same results as any other sharpening stone I have. If your stones are worn, you will end up with the stones not cutting and you losing slicing aggression. The Arkansas stones also work best when a coarse Al0 or SiC has done the heavy lifting. After that, you can just go to the Soft Arkansas to resharpen the blade when it dulls.

Tom Veff 'Veff Notch' (1 reply)

Broadaxe (5 replies)

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I was given this as a gift, it is going to take some work :



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This is a broad axe (ground on one side) made for squaring logs, it had been in service cutting sods, hence the damage to the edge. This is a low priority, but I should be able to attend to it some time this summer.

Deburring A Mora (5 replies)

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video: [www.youtube.com]






I have a Mora Eldris (almost too small to be useful). It had a large burr by the base of the blade. To my pleasant surprise, the removal of the of burr was easy. Usually, most factory burrs are very hard to remove; they require waterstones and sintered ceramics. With the Mora, all I used was a Spyderco fine and ultra fine, with just a few passes per side with each. I believe this is due to quality thermal processing of the steel (Sandvik) and no overheated edges during sharpening.

Parasite Scratches: How To Avoid Them (3 replies)

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This has happened to me:

[youtu.be]

The best thing that came from this was I learned not to care about a knife I am using. If you are sharpening for money, or care about how your knife looks, you need to mask it. I like to use clear strapping tape, a tip I learner from watching an Apostle P video.

Knife Sharpening Doesn't Need To Be Complicated! (6 replies)

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After watching this video:
[www.youtube.com]

it became obvious that knife sharpening doesn't need to be that complicated. Once you have the basics down, it in fact is rather simple, and with practice, can become easy. That being said, what is your easiest sharpening system to use? I like my Lanksy Crockstick Diamond 4-Rod, and the DMT Magna Guide Aligner.

Another sharpening aid (4 replies)

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Another thread from Kitchen Knife forum, [www.kitchenknifeforums.com]!!

very well made little accessory, looks nice but.... folks are talking about $75, which seems ok because of how the tool is made. I don't see it as that practical. size is 215mm x 60mm or 8 1/2" by 2 3/8", an ok size but standard rolls are 2" or 3", pre-cut strips 2 3/4" wide. 8 1/2" length is ok, but for $75 you can get a big Norton JUM3 which is 11 1/2" x 2 1/2".
I have been using a homemade that does the same job for years. I used 4 3/4" wide heavy duty clipboard clips mounted 10" apart on a piece of steel. the steel is flat or you can place rubber or foam under the paper. works ok, but sandpaper doesn't last long. I use 240, 320, 400, & 600 grit SiC paper, but even wet after 8 to 10 passes, I need to replace the paper.
Stupid uninformed me, I commented I get the same result with a basic clipboard and a thumbtack or use some PSA paper on a piece of steel or granite.

When Not Raising a Burr is a Must (3 replies)

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This is interesting, and the first I have heard of a steel acting like this:

[www.spyderco.com]

This behavior seems to be similar to what I have read about sharpening ceramic knives. The question then becomes do most of the high carbide density steels behave like this? Can not sharpening to a burr be a necessity for getting a sharp edge on some steels?

Hypersensitive Rust Repair (4 replies)

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video: [www.youtube.com]


In the video the poster removes rust from the blade of a GEC #47 factory second. He does a good job in the removal of the rust (surface oxidation with light pitting) and the subsequent buffing out (mostly) of the residual patination and scratches. But, his comments are hypersensitive in regard to blade scratches and cosmetics on a factory second which is regularly used. He said: "I really screwed up" because he put minor scratches on the polished finish of the blade with a Scotch-Brite pad. At least, he acknowledges that a full buffing to a mirror polish would be unreasonable for a factory second.

A comment on the video suggested that the poster should send the knife to GEC and have the blade replaced. Also, it is never mentioned that the refurbished blade will be resharpened.

What Are The Benefits of Minimal Stropping? (3 replies)

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I have noticed that if I use only a few passes, say two passes per side on a pasted strop, or say 40 passes per side on linen/canvas and 40 on plain leather, that I get the benefits of stropping without most of the negatives. I can get an edge that will only pass a HHT 1: (http://www.coticule.be/hanging-hair-test.html) that is a violin type action, were the hair just vibrates on the blade, to a HHT3/4 were the hair is completly severed. Has anyone else noticed any difference in their blades with minimal stropping vs not stropping at all?

Oil vs Dishsoap & Water (no replies)

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This is a video from a few months ago, and it had me thinking that some combinations of stones, steels, lubricants, and techniques can be optimized.
[www.youtube.com]

Now the video maker jumps to what I think is an assumption at the end because there was some problems cutting, but that could have been a burr. I did find it interesting that the level of polish was also high, indicating either that the stones needed to be condtitioned or that it was burnishing the steel.

Diamond Waterstones (no replies)

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